You totally got this right! I recently read about the suicide rates of married women before they were able to divorce and how that rate went down after they were allowed to. I am right on the cusp of ”Baby Boomer” and ”Gen X”. I have a 90 year old father who I don´t have much contact with. And a son who is on the fence about having limited contact with me. It´s a shame spiral deluxe. BUT I am resolved in saving my relationship with my son and that I have to deal with myself, with ALL the things you listed! This post helped me tremendously! There is definitely generational trauma and it is up to me to break the trend. Thank you Flint.
Flint, this made me feel so much less alone in my choice to be no contact. I am not equipped to handle their shame or help my family with it and that really helps me accept the reality of the situation. You have such an insightful perspective that is filled with compassion and rooted in love. Thank you.
This is so wise. Thank you for this gift to parents who struggle with unrecognized generational wounds and patterns that are fixing to perpetuate serious harm on young people in our lives. Please keep sharing your experiences and lessons. Thank you.
My abusive step-father recently passed away. The only thing I regret is not being able to tell him how much he hurt me. You are 100 per cent right when you say that people like Robbins and Winfrey don't get it. Estrangement is not a fad.
He probably would have enjoyed it, so don’t feel too bad. The thing they hate most is total irrelevance to their targets. Oprah is such a degenerate creep.
I’ve read a lot of articles recently about estrangement… none of them aligned with what I’ve been feeling, but yours here nails my experience. I want my parents to become self-aware… to have the capacity to reflect, take responsibility, apologize when it’s warranted. But yes, unnamed shame gets in the way, and they are adamant that they will not do that work. So according to them, it’s my fault that our relationship has dimmed. I am positive though that if either one of them made an honest apology, it would be easy for me to resume a real, honest relationship. Right now all they’re offering is the kind of surface relationship one might have with a neighbor or a coworker. It’s sad they don’t know how to have deep, close relationships.
Robbins' comments are really disappointing and seem to take the "Let Them theory" to an extreme. I've only read summaries of her work, so I acknowledge my impression is based on incomplete information, but I'd really thought she supported the idea of boundaries that you describe; that you're no longer trying to make demands to control other people's behavior, and changing our reactions to that behavior. I guess she's just expecting that the new reaction is smiling and nodding, even if people are unapologetically cruel.
My more charitable take is that she's talking to people who are estranged for "frivolous" reasons. Those people might exist. I think I've met some, but I might not have the whole story. But to generalize like that is, like you said, reductive at best, and actively harmful at worst.
This was beautifully explained. I'm so tired of self-defined “experts” telling folks what they should or should not be experiencing. It's your life and your decision what makes best sense for your safety and emotional support.
Thank you. The cycle of self-doubt is real no matter how long. But I have enough practice in being true to myself I can ignore it better now. I am on both sides of this - the estranged and the estranger. As an estranged parent who acknowledged and took accountability I probably goofed my chance to provide the needed apology. I choose to stay available should another opportunity come. I also realized that I want what’s best for my daughter even if it means no contact - if that’s what she needs to grow and thrive. I am no contact with my own family of origin and like your husband - it helped me bloom and thrive to distance myself from them. It’s hard to be on both sides of this but I think it’s a necessary part of evolution. We can no longer tolerate transactional relationships based on traditional roles. It’s time we find true connection and relationship.
I think another aspect to the "trend" is that in some corners of society, values are changing. We're rejecting hierarchy and the the idea that submission to our elders is required, rather than earned.
It seems to me that it's not a good idea to put out absolutes into the world. I'm a psychotherapist and I know that each person's experiences and circumstances are unique. And people deserve to have help through their own unique wants, desires, traumas, needs, etc. When people write books or otherwise put information out into the world with absolutes, it misses a lot nuance and reality.
Your writing is really great. A nice blend of poetic, informative and soulful.
I unfollowed Mel Robbins very quickly after reading this. The complexity is very difficult to navigate and cannot be reduced to disagreeing over politics. Thank you and 💙 to you and your husband (I can’t remember his name atm, I read this yesterday on IG and wanted to comment).
I kept putting this down whenever I read the quotes only to remind myself that’s not what YOU were saying so it was ok to keep reading! Rosie The Resistor (a Substack writer) explained this so clearly in a recent post using MAGA as an example. There’s three kinds of reasons to cut out family:
1: they believe something false that hurts you. You may need distance but healing is possible.
2: they believe that some people must get hurt for them to get what they want. People are acceptable collateral in the achievement of their goals. This is a nope.
3: they love other peoples’ pain. They glory in how delicious it is. This is a RUN AWAY and never come back kind of estrangement.
And it can be so hard to figure out which is which. Did a parent beat a child because they literally believed that if they spared the rod they’d spoil the child? Did it break them into little pieces and now they carry a whole world of shame? Did they do it because it was necessary in order for you to grow into an adult they’d be proud of? Did they do it because it was a great release for their frustrations and felt so good?
Anyone who dismisses this as a “trend” has their head buried so far in the sand only their feet are showing.
This really resonates with me as after recently loosing my mum, who I haven't had a close relationship with, I started to realise the harm my family was causing me. I am making decisions on what is best for me and my partner. I realise I have control over this. Especially love your thoughts on Mel Roberts. Thank you
You totally got this right! I recently read about the suicide rates of married women before they were able to divorce and how that rate went down after they were allowed to. I am right on the cusp of ”Baby Boomer” and ”Gen X”. I have a 90 year old father who I don´t have much contact with. And a son who is on the fence about having limited contact with me. It´s a shame spiral deluxe. BUT I am resolved in saving my relationship with my son and that I have to deal with myself, with ALL the things you listed! This post helped me tremendously! There is definitely generational trauma and it is up to me to break the trend. Thank you Flint.
Wow thank you for this comment — the work is tremendously hard, but worth it 🤍
Flint, this made me feel so much less alone in my choice to be no contact. I am not equipped to handle their shame or help my family with it and that really helps me accept the reality of the situation. You have such an insightful perspective that is filled with compassion and rooted in love. Thank you.
😭😭😭
This is so wise. Thank you for this gift to parents who struggle with unrecognized generational wounds and patterns that are fixing to perpetuate serious harm on young people in our lives. Please keep sharing your experiences and lessons. Thank you.
This is great. Feels like something I could have written about my own situation. I really appreciate this post.
DAMN, Flint, this is the BEST thing I've read on the internet in recent memory. You nailed every point so beautifully. THANK YOU.
Thank you for saying this!
My abusive step-father recently passed away. The only thing I regret is not being able to tell him how much he hurt me. You are 100 per cent right when you say that people like Robbins and Winfrey don't get it. Estrangement is not a fad.
He probably would have enjoyed it, so don’t feel too bad. The thing they hate most is total irrelevance to their targets. Oprah is such a degenerate creep.
I’ve read a lot of articles recently about estrangement… none of them aligned with what I’ve been feeling, but yours here nails my experience. I want my parents to become self-aware… to have the capacity to reflect, take responsibility, apologize when it’s warranted. But yes, unnamed shame gets in the way, and they are adamant that they will not do that work. So according to them, it’s my fault that our relationship has dimmed. I am positive though that if either one of them made an honest apology, it would be easy for me to resume a real, honest relationship. Right now all they’re offering is the kind of surface relationship one might have with a neighbor or a coworker. It’s sad they don’t know how to have deep, close relationships.
Robbins' comments are really disappointing and seem to take the "Let Them theory" to an extreme. I've only read summaries of her work, so I acknowledge my impression is based on incomplete information, but I'd really thought she supported the idea of boundaries that you describe; that you're no longer trying to make demands to control other people's behavior, and changing our reactions to that behavior. I guess she's just expecting that the new reaction is smiling and nodding, even if people are unapologetically cruel.
My more charitable take is that she's talking to people who are estranged for "frivolous" reasons. Those people might exist. I think I've met some, but I might not have the whole story. But to generalize like that is, like you said, reductive at best, and actively harmful at worst.
This was beautifully explained. I'm so tired of self-defined “experts” telling folks what they should or should not be experiencing. It's your life and your decision what makes best sense for your safety and emotional support.
Thank you. The cycle of self-doubt is real no matter how long. But I have enough practice in being true to myself I can ignore it better now. I am on both sides of this - the estranged and the estranger. As an estranged parent who acknowledged and took accountability I probably goofed my chance to provide the needed apology. I choose to stay available should another opportunity come. I also realized that I want what’s best for my daughter even if it means no contact - if that’s what she needs to grow and thrive. I am no contact with my own family of origin and like your husband - it helped me bloom and thrive to distance myself from them. It’s hard to be on both sides of this but I think it’s a necessary part of evolution. We can no longer tolerate transactional relationships based on traditional roles. It’s time we find true connection and relationship.
I think another aspect to the "trend" is that in some corners of society, values are changing. We're rejecting hierarchy and the the idea that submission to our elders is required, rather than earned.
It seems to me that it's not a good idea to put out absolutes into the world. I'm a psychotherapist and I know that each person's experiences and circumstances are unique. And people deserve to have help through their own unique wants, desires, traumas, needs, etc. When people write books or otherwise put information out into the world with absolutes, it misses a lot nuance and reality.
Your writing is really great. A nice blend of poetic, informative and soulful.
I unfollowed Mel Robbins very quickly after reading this. The complexity is very difficult to navigate and cannot be reduced to disagreeing over politics. Thank you and 💙 to you and your husband (I can’t remember his name atm, I read this yesterday on IG and wanted to comment).
I kept putting this down whenever I read the quotes only to remind myself that’s not what YOU were saying so it was ok to keep reading! Rosie The Resistor (a Substack writer) explained this so clearly in a recent post using MAGA as an example. There’s three kinds of reasons to cut out family:
1: they believe something false that hurts you. You may need distance but healing is possible.
2: they believe that some people must get hurt for them to get what they want. People are acceptable collateral in the achievement of their goals. This is a nope.
3: they love other peoples’ pain. They glory in how delicious it is. This is a RUN AWAY and never come back kind of estrangement.
And it can be so hard to figure out which is which. Did a parent beat a child because they literally believed that if they spared the rod they’d spoil the child? Did it break them into little pieces and now they carry a whole world of shame? Did they do it because it was necessary in order for you to grow into an adult they’d be proud of? Did they do it because it was a great release for their frustrations and felt so good?
Anyone who dismisses this as a “trend” has their head buried so far in the sand only their feet are showing.
This is amazing, Flint! Thank you for sharing this!!
Random question—Wonder if anyone has challenged Oprah on breaking ties with people like Dr Oz??
This really resonates with me as after recently loosing my mum, who I haven't had a close relationship with, I started to realise the harm my family was causing me. I am making decisions on what is best for me and my partner. I realise I have control over this. Especially love your thoughts on Mel Roberts. Thank you